Interview: Joshua Cooper Ramo
Joshua Cooper Ramo on the Beijing Consensus in the Age of Networks.
By Maurits Elen
August 10, 2016
Joshua
Cooper Ramo is CEO of Kissinger Associates, the strategic advisory firm
founded by former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. Prior
to entering the advisory business, Ramo traveled and observed the world
through his positions at Newsweek and Time Magazine. When
he left journalism, he moved to China, intrigued by the dynamics of its
rapid growth. That model of Chinese development
he later came to define in his influential paper “The Beijing
Consensus” (2004). Mandarin-speaking, Ramo is an international
best-selling author and has been called “one of China’s leading
foreign-born scholars.” The Diplomat recently interviewed Ramo
on the Beijing Consensus and his most recent book, The Seventh Sense: Power, Fortune, and Survival in the Age of Networks.
The Diplomat: In
2004, you coined the phrase “The Beijing Consensus.” Have the
characteristics of the model remained the same since then or have
changes occurred?
Joshua Cooper Ramo: The essential idea of the Beijing Consensus, that China’s national conditions and political environment would demand a unique development model, remains the same. It is worth remembering for a moment the essential Washington Consensus idea, that there was a single prescriptive economic model that would produce reliable growth for all nations were it uniformly followed. This idea was really an early and important tenant of post-Cold War globalization, and it was matched by ideas like Democratic Peace Theory, which suggested that the rapid development of a single political model for domestic order was not only desirable but possible. Today, we live in a world in deep crisis. And much of this comes from the over-simple assumptions baked into universalizing ideas about political and economic structure. What works in the financial markets of London, we now all see, is not such an easy match after all for the puzzles of Greek finance. The political solutions that have buttressed several hundred years of European history cannot be installed as easily as a McDonald’s in the countries of the Middle East.
Joshua Cooper Ramo: The essential idea of the Beijing Consensus, that China’s national conditions and political environment would demand a unique development model, remains the same. It is worth remembering for a moment the essential Washington Consensus idea, that there was a single prescriptive economic model that would produce reliable growth for all nations were it uniformly followed. This idea was really an early and important tenant of post-Cold War globalization, and it was matched by ideas like Democratic Peace Theory, which suggested that the rapid development of a single political model for domestic order was not only desirable but possible. Today, we live in a world in deep crisis. And much of this comes from the over-simple assumptions baked into universalizing ideas about political and economic structure. What works in the financial markets of London, we now all see, is not such an easy match after all for the puzzles of Greek finance. The political solutions that have buttressed several hundred years of European history cannot be installed as easily as a McDonald’s in the countries of the Middle East.
The
Beijing Consensus had a number of important precepts that appear to me
still valid. Easily the most important—and clearly obvious of these—is
that the mental model of many Westerners who considered China a decade
ago, was a flawed and oversimplified projection. The idea that China
would transform easily into a Western-looking political and economic
system really was a common view then; and one still
finds in places a strong belief that any attempt for China to find a
unique path will result in failure. The notion that China would easily
acquiesce to a security order the country had not helped create was a
similar misjudgment. The Beijing Consensus was
not meant as a judgment about China’s path or choices; rather it was
meant as a dispassionate description of what was obvious to many
Chinese: That while universal or particular values may obtain in China’s
future order, the direction of the nation will surely
be heavily influenced by uncountable forces of history, politics,
economics, and social pressure.
Clearly
the biggest change since 2004 has been the end of the era of easy
globalization, something Chinese leaders addressed in the preface to
the 13th Five Year Plan. The country is now trying to find a way to
balance the demands of a connected world economy with a sense that
future prosperity will depend greatly on China’s domestic capacity for
production and prosperity. If the great economic endowment
of the country in the last period was a low-cost labor base, the
endowment today is the domestic market, and it is on the basis of the
potentially powerful source of growth that current efforts must be
calculated. In the original Beijing Consensus I wrote:
“There are really only two points I want to make in this essay… The
first was that China is pioneering a new route towards development that
is based on innovation, asymmetry, human-up development, and a focus on
the balance of individual rights and responsibilities.
The second is this: China’s weaknesses are its future.” This second
point also remains valid. The tremendous deficiencies of Chinese life
will really be decisive in the next stage of development, as China’s own
leaders often acknowledge. The struggle to fully
achieve a new development model today, as those of us who work and live
in China can attest, is as much about what does exist as what does not.
In the last decade or so, how much ground has the development model gained in Asia?
It is hard to say that a coherent development model has emerged anywhere in Asia, let alone a “China Model” development perspective. Clearly in the period after the 1997 crisis and even more sharply since the 2008 crisis, the idea of a Washington-knows-best approach to development has come under pressure. This is becoming a more acute problem with every passing year of the current crisis, as old economic tools fail to solve what once appeared very tractable problems. I described a great deal of this in my last book The Age of the Unthinkable, which discussed the way in which complex systems interact in ways that constantly produce surprise, contagion, and instability—every bit as naturally as they produce miracles of connection or medicine or technology. The challenge now is to begin to develop economic development policies that tap the benefits of complex interaction while managing many of the risks. Today we operate on two poles of this debate: Brexit would be an example of a furious desire to just unplug and escape the perils of connection; TPP [the Trans-Pacific Partnership] reflects a sense that more connection is linked to more prosperity. We know neither case is true. And increasingly we see that both fail the acid test of global affairs, which is domestic politics. The idea of the Beijing Consensus is less that every nation will follow China’s development model, but that it legitimizes the notion of particularity as opposed to the universality of a Washington model.
It is hard to say that a coherent development model has emerged anywhere in Asia, let alone a “China Model” development perspective. Clearly in the period after the 1997 crisis and even more sharply since the 2008 crisis, the idea of a Washington-knows-best approach to development has come under pressure. This is becoming a more acute problem with every passing year of the current crisis, as old economic tools fail to solve what once appeared very tractable problems. I described a great deal of this in my last book The Age of the Unthinkable, which discussed the way in which complex systems interact in ways that constantly produce surprise, contagion, and instability—every bit as naturally as they produce miracles of connection or medicine or technology. The challenge now is to begin to develop economic development policies that tap the benefits of complex interaction while managing many of the risks. Today we operate on two poles of this debate: Brexit would be an example of a furious desire to just unplug and escape the perils of connection; TPP [the Trans-Pacific Partnership] reflects a sense that more connection is linked to more prosperity. We know neither case is true. And increasingly we see that both fail the acid test of global affairs, which is domestic politics. The idea of the Beijing Consensus is less that every nation will follow China’s development model, but that it legitimizes the notion of particularity as opposed to the universality of a Washington model.
Jin
Liqun, president of the newly founded Asian Infrastructure Investment
Bank (AIIB), stated that its bank incorporates the lessons learned
from developed nations and the experiences from developing countries
such as China. To what extent can the AIIB be seen as the
institutionalization of the Beijing Consensus?
It is too early to say much about the AIIB. President Jin has been very thoughtful about balancing the roles of an international institution with the various pressures one would expect in such a situation. The bank is certainly a welcome player on the global development stage, what remains to be seen is in what direction its efforts are applied.
It is too early to say much about the AIIB. President Jin has been very thoughtful about balancing the roles of an international institution with the various pressures one would expect in such a situation. The bank is certainly a welcome player on the global development stage, what remains to be seen is in what direction its efforts are applied.
For
a developing nation, can the consensus serve as a long-term economic
role model? For example, when a middle class becomes powerful through
newly acquired economic independence, it could demand democratization
of the political system, or when an economy aims to truly compete
globally, it needs to liberalize its capital account. In both examples, a
country could drift away from key notions of the
Beijing Consensus, while embracing more Washington Consensus-like
traits instead.
There
is no more important goal of economic development than the creation of a
prosperous, confident, and engaged middle class. Such an aim reflects
the political truth that a large middle class provides the stability
and long-termism that permits investment in political, environmental,
social and technological systems that have a positive-sum return. The
challenge for any development model is to adjust
as time goes on to increasing demands for participation. Legitimacy of
the model depends on this sort of acceptance, and is as true in Beijing
as it is in Washington or Berlin. The specific problems of capital
account management or democratization, for example,
are less about picking a Washington or Beijing model and more about
finding a suitable balance between open and closed. The Washington
Consensus mandated opening many floodgates at once. The Beijing view is
that such a process should be pursued with caution.
Certainly there are many opinions about the pace at which China is
now exploring such developments.
You recently published a book called The Seventh Sense.
It deals with the disruptive force of technology-driven networks. Such
networks
and authoritarian governments often clash. In China for example,
Facebook is blocked and Sina Weibo is heavily monitored and censored.
How does The Seventh Sense fit in the Beijing Consensus?
Two
dominant facts confront anyone who gazes at the world today. The first
is that our institutions are everywhere in crisis and that the problems
they confront seem to get worse when treated with the usual solutions.
The most expensive war on terror in human history has not eradicated
terrorism. The most aggressive monetary policy ever deployed, intended
to firm economies and support middle class recovery,
has produced more fragile financial systems and weakened the middle
class. Attempts to expand political engagement have produced more
extremism. And all around us are a long list of problems —from pandemics
to weapons proliferation—that we can see and apparently
do nothing about. No institution today is more respected than it was a
decade ago. The second apparent fact is the unstoppable spread
of networks, of connected systems for everything from finance to
information to DNA. My contention in the book is that these
facts are linked. Network systems represent a profound new way to
organize power—as profound and different as the systems that emerged
from the industrial revolution and the Enlightenment once were.
What
I am to do in the book is explain just how these systems work, and to
describe a new sense that some people and institutions seem to have,
that lets them use and master this new force. I call this “The Seventh
Sense.” (Nietzsche once spoke of a Sixth Sense for history that he said
was needed to survive an industrial age. I think this Seventh Sense for
connection will be the key to prosperity
in our age.)
The
essential puzzle for the management of any network system is to manage
the question of openness. What we know is that networks crave speed
and efficiency, so anything that slows this down appears to be a
tremendous problem for development. This is why it might be argued, for
instance, that a poorly functioning search engine for data might be more
of a liability to a country than a poorly functioning
capital market. Network economics present a new challenge and aspect to
many nations. The desire for a China-model network will have to be
balanced with certain inarguable laws of network power, and it is this
puzzle that the country is now considering.
Many
large networks that can be disruptive are American-bred, for example
LinkedIn, Uber, Twitter, YouTube, Google, and Facebook. Do you think
that The Seventh Sense supports a U.S. soft-power model, which is based on democratization?
Today
we have nine different platforms with more than one billion
users—Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Office, Facebook, WhatsApp, Google
Maps,
Gmail, Google Chrome, YouTube, and Skype. These are all American.
Moreover, they all operate with a powerful logic: The more people who
use them, the more attractive and valuable they become, which militates
against the emergence of competitors. Each of these
systems has dominant market share. And you can see why: If I told you,
you needed to search for a disease cure on some local search engine in
Country A or you could use Google with its global footprint, it is clear
what the best choice would be. The important
thing to understand here is that these same power laws obtain for many
connected systems, not just the Internet. In The Seventh Sense, I use everything from adventures with the best computer hackers to the insights of the wisest diplomats to show what
this means for world order, and for the future of war and peace.
I
think it is too early to say that is certainly locks in American power.
We are at a very early period. And I also do not believe in the idea
of “Soft Power”—that somehow nations are swayed by cultural charm or
the desire to watch American TV or wear Levis as Dr. Nye has suggested.
Nations make decisions based on considerations of power, domestic
politics, and large structural forces that may be
well beyond their control. The transition to a world of connected
system of all sorts is such a transition, and is in coldly realistic
terms about the costs and benefits of inclusion in various networks that
nations will pursue their interests. As we have
already seen in cases such as Brexit or various global territorial
disputes, there is nothing “soft” about such historically significant
adjustments.